Friday, December 21, 2012
Sunday, December 16, 2012
Friday, November 30, 2012
How to find a life verse in the Bible | Life Bible Verses
I came that they may have life and have it abundantly John 10:10
How to find a life verse in the Bible | Life Bible Verses
How to find a life verse in the Bible | Life Bible Verses
Tuesday, March 13, 2007
handling grievances
What happens when someone in a church feels that spiritual abuse has happened or is happening? I have been contemplating the grievance process over the last few days … thinking about how this should go down. First off … spiritual abuse can go both ways … church’s can abuse their pastors as well as pastor’s their church members. There needs to be a better way of handling this sort of thing short of excommunication or termination.
I think there needs to be an independent board established made up of non-biased people that both church and church leaders agree to be held accountable to. An elder board … ah, not so much. If you have an elder board from a new church plant … it’s going to be made up of folks who were selected by the pastor or staff … that’s just not going to work. The old deacon board … ah, not so good either … too much of a power struggle could ensue ending in terminating pastors because of a whim.
There needs to be an outside entity with a “kingdom” mindset available to hear and give direction to those who are out of line. If I am a victim of spiritual abuse … I should be able to go to the group of believers and share my story. If I am at fault … they should be able to walk me through a process of understanding and lead me back to a place of restoration with those I feel have abused. On the flip side … if the pastor or staff is at fault … they too should be held accountable for their actions and appropriate measures followed to correct their errant behavior. Both church and leadership would have to fully support the recommendations of this unbiased committee.
Or we could handle it like my friend from Florida suggested … eliminate salaries all together from church leadership … allowing the pew and pulpit equal ground to handle grievances. My friend suggests that a lot of pastor and staff folks do whatever it takes to protect their salaries … getting rid of unpleasant situations that could effect their salaries down the road. This, I don’t fully agree with … but it is a thought.
WG –
hurting christians grievances in church spiritual abuse church gone bad
Wednesday, March 07, 2007
What do you know?
Long time ... no hear from. It's because I have too many blogs and not enough time to catch them all. Check out ... the great Christian tshirts we found.
Long time ... no hear from. It's because I have too many blogs and not enough time to catch them all. Check out ... the great Christian tshirts we found.
Friday, July 28, 2006
Helpful and not so...
by bob hyatt
From Driscoll's Confessions...
(editors note: great post by bob ... and good insight on his part)
Helpful:
"I hit a particularly low point one day when a young couple knocked on the door of our home... We considered them friends until they came over to tell us they had left the church. They complained that since the church had grown a bit bigger and things were a bit busier, my wife and I had become less available to them...
We were stunned. We needed couples like this to help the church survive, not jump ship just because my wife could not drop everything to take this woman out to tea whenever was convenient for her. The odd thing was that they transferred to a megachurch in the suburbs, which made no sense because they would get no closer to that pastor and his wife than they had to Grace and me. Yet they knocked on our door unannounced to tell us we were not doing enough for them. It seemed obvious that they wanted us to bend over backward and promise to do anything to make them happy in order to keep them in the church...
In retrospect, this was a hard lesson, one that I have had to learn many times in the various seasons of our church. As a church grows, it also changes. And as a church changes, so does the accesibility of the pastor and his family. As the pastor gets busier with new people and responsibilities, some people are displaced and are not as close to the pastor as they had been. Displaced people are prone to expect the pastor to ensure that their access to him and his family will never change. If the pastor agrees to these demands, he will keep the disgruntled people but not reach any new people because the mission will shift from reaching the new people to pleasing the old people."
A good differentiation to keep in mind, I think...
Not so helpful:
"We continued to meet on Sunday nights until Christmas, when some of the arty types started complaining that there was a preaching monologue instead of an open dialogue, as would become popular with some emerging pastors a few years later. This forced me to think through my theology of preaching, spiritual authority, and the authority of Scripture. I did an intense study of the Old Testament prophets and the New Testament commans regarding preaching and teaching. In the end, I decided not to back off from a preaching monologue but instead work hard at becoming a solid long-winded, old-school Bible preacher that focused on Jesus. My people needed to hear from God's Word and not from each other in collective ignorance like some dumb chat room."
There are so many false antitheses here, I hardly know where to start. How about a quote from DA Carson, well-known critic of the emerging church? What was it he said? Oh yeah... "Damn all false antitheses to hell, for they generate false gods, they perpetuate idols, they twist and distort our souls, they launch the church into violent pendulum swings whose oscillations succeed only in dividing brothers and sisters in Christ."
Preach it D.A.!
Let me say this strongly-
Continue reading "Helpful and not so..." »
by bob hyatt
From Driscoll's Confessions...
(editors note: great post by bob ... and good insight on his part)
Helpful:
"I hit a particularly low point one day when a young couple knocked on the door of our home... We considered them friends until they came over to tell us they had left the church. They complained that since the church had grown a bit bigger and things were a bit busier, my wife and I had become less available to them...
We were stunned. We needed couples like this to help the church survive, not jump ship just because my wife could not drop everything to take this woman out to tea whenever was convenient for her. The odd thing was that they transferred to a megachurch in the suburbs, which made no sense because they would get no closer to that pastor and his wife than they had to Grace and me. Yet they knocked on our door unannounced to tell us we were not doing enough for them. It seemed obvious that they wanted us to bend over backward and promise to do anything to make them happy in order to keep them in the church...
In retrospect, this was a hard lesson, one that I have had to learn many times in the various seasons of our church. As a church grows, it also changes. And as a church changes, so does the accesibility of the pastor and his family. As the pastor gets busier with new people and responsibilities, some people are displaced and are not as close to the pastor as they had been. Displaced people are prone to expect the pastor to ensure that their access to him and his family will never change. If the pastor agrees to these demands, he will keep the disgruntled people but not reach any new people because the mission will shift from reaching the new people to pleasing the old people."
A good differentiation to keep in mind, I think...
Not so helpful:
"We continued to meet on Sunday nights until Christmas, when some of the arty types started complaining that there was a preaching monologue instead of an open dialogue, as would become popular with some emerging pastors a few years later. This forced me to think through my theology of preaching, spiritual authority, and the authority of Scripture. I did an intense study of the Old Testament prophets and the New Testament commans regarding preaching and teaching. In the end, I decided not to back off from a preaching monologue but instead work hard at becoming a solid long-winded, old-school Bible preacher that focused on Jesus. My people needed to hear from God's Word and not from each other in collective ignorance like some dumb chat room."
There are so many false antitheses here, I hardly know where to start. How about a quote from DA Carson, well-known critic of the emerging church? What was it he said? Oh yeah... "Damn all false antitheses to hell, for they generate false gods, they perpetuate idols, they twist and distort our souls, they launch the church into violent pendulum swings whose oscillations succeed only in dividing brothers and sisters in Christ."
Preach it D.A.!
Let me say this strongly-
Continue reading "Helpful and not so..." »
Thursday, July 27, 2006
Emerging/Reforming/Missional
by Tony @ church plant my eye
(editors note: here's another Texas church planter, planting near Austin Texas -- great post)
There seems to be so much going back and forth about what kind of church is or is not Biblically healthy. Currently, there is this intense discussion about whether or not the emerging church is of value, has Biblical accuracy, or if it is simply watering everything down and making it seem to easy to get into Heaven. I realize this is a discussion that needs to be had by some very influential people and who no doubt have some right and authority to speak into this kind of debate.
In my limited view of 20th & 21st century church history, these things always make me a bit uneasy. It’s not the discussion itself that makes me uneasy, but rather it is the wide open discussion. It seems that whenever the church puts its laundry out on the line for everyone to see, it never makes the discussion easy. Maybe this is the only way it can get resolved. Maybe it’s the only way people will entertain the discussion. Then again, is it the role of people to make assessments on whether or not some aspects of how people reach people are good enough? I totally agree that anything that diminishes the Word of God or negates its instruction needs to be knocked down. But I think my point is that when we start knocking on people’s doors and telling them that their way of doing church isn’t the right way, perhaps it is more telling about our own methods and the possibility that they are out of order.
Case in point – Jimmy Swaggart and James Bakker. It was Swaggart who wagged his finger at Bakker in the midst of revelations of his affair. Yet a few short years later, it was Swaggart looking at the wagging fingers in his face. Both ministries took a huge tumble. They probably needed to. But the publicity killed a lot of other great ministries simply by association of the public viewing.
Case in point – The Kansas City Prophets shootout. Several years ago, there were two prophetic camps at war with each other, each denouncing the other. It got so heated that Charisma picked it up. And, in the end, much damage was done, including a lot of wounding and bitterness.
So what’s my point? I think my point is that we must lead where God has put us into leadership. I don’t think I fall in the Emerging church category. And I am not the leader of the Emerging church movement. Therefore, I am not empowered or qualified to speak about their ministry unless it steps outside of Biblical accuracy. And even then, I wouldn’t do it in a public forum. I am not 100% reformed, as is the Acts 29 movement, nor am I in leadership in that organization. I can speak about what I personally am not comfortable with. But to take them to task publicly is a bit dangerous, in my opinion. There is a lot of volleying going on between Doug Padgett, Driscoll, Calvary Chapel, et al., in a very public way. And this is forcing people to decide, weigh in, and pick their side. Where can it end and how will it help the body?
Whenever I see something that really bugs me about someone else, I eventually get to this question “What in me is messed up that causes me to take a dim view of someone else?” What I fear the most here is that the measure that people take issues public is the same measure their issues will be taken public if there are any and they are found out or called out. Maybe my final question is “How is God going to get glory out of this and how do we help it to that end?”
Finally, I realize I am no expert here and the history and scope of this issue is beyond me. I am simply putting a few thoughts down to challenge myself and hopefully others in our handling and processing of other peoples’ stuff.
by Tony @ church plant my eye
(editors note: here's another Texas church planter, planting near Austin Texas -- great post)
There seems to be so much going back and forth about what kind of church is or is not Biblically healthy. Currently, there is this intense discussion about whether or not the emerging church is of value, has Biblical accuracy, or if it is simply watering everything down and making it seem to easy to get into Heaven. I realize this is a discussion that needs to be had by some very influential people and who no doubt have some right and authority to speak into this kind of debate.
In my limited view of 20th & 21st century church history, these things always make me a bit uneasy. It’s not the discussion itself that makes me uneasy, but rather it is the wide open discussion. It seems that whenever the church puts its laundry out on the line for everyone to see, it never makes the discussion easy. Maybe this is the only way it can get resolved. Maybe it’s the only way people will entertain the discussion. Then again, is it the role of people to make assessments on whether or not some aspects of how people reach people are good enough? I totally agree that anything that diminishes the Word of God or negates its instruction needs to be knocked down. But I think my point is that when we start knocking on people’s doors and telling them that their way of doing church isn’t the right way, perhaps it is more telling about our own methods and the possibility that they are out of order.
Case in point – Jimmy Swaggart and James Bakker. It was Swaggart who wagged his finger at Bakker in the midst of revelations of his affair. Yet a few short years later, it was Swaggart looking at the wagging fingers in his face. Both ministries took a huge tumble. They probably needed to. But the publicity killed a lot of other great ministries simply by association of the public viewing.
Case in point – The Kansas City Prophets shootout. Several years ago, there were two prophetic camps at war with each other, each denouncing the other. It got so heated that Charisma picked it up. And, in the end, much damage was done, including a lot of wounding and bitterness.
So what’s my point? I think my point is that we must lead where God has put us into leadership. I don’t think I fall in the Emerging church category. And I am not the leader of the Emerging church movement. Therefore, I am not empowered or qualified to speak about their ministry unless it steps outside of Biblical accuracy. And even then, I wouldn’t do it in a public forum. I am not 100% reformed, as is the Acts 29 movement, nor am I in leadership in that organization. I can speak about what I personally am not comfortable with. But to take them to task publicly is a bit dangerous, in my opinion. There is a lot of volleying going on between Doug Padgett, Driscoll, Calvary Chapel, et al., in a very public way. And this is forcing people to decide, weigh in, and pick their side. Where can it end and how will it help the body?
Whenever I see something that really bugs me about someone else, I eventually get to this question “What in me is messed up that causes me to take a dim view of someone else?” What I fear the most here is that the measure that people take issues public is the same measure their issues will be taken public if there are any and they are found out or called out. Maybe my final question is “How is God going to get glory out of this and how do we help it to that end?”
Finally, I realize I am no expert here and the history and scope of this issue is beyond me. I am simply putting a few thoughts down to challenge myself and hopefully others in our handling and processing of other peoples’ stuff.
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